19 Aug 08 Problems with Gisol - Self Help.
I thought we could start a self help chapter of arguments for the credit card companies.
This would be my first, but others can add their thoughts as well:
Understand that I am not an attorney and only offer suggestions to help clarify your position with the courts and the credit card companies. Your cases are all different and you must decide if this information works in your case.
1.One of the biggest problems that has come up is that signatures are being either forged or copied to multiple documents as if you did it.
2.These copies are identical, after all they are copies.
3.There is only one signature and that signature can only be originated or tied to one document.
4.Instead of arguing the forgery, argue its value.
5.In other words even if the signature is valid it can only be valid in one place.
6.Gisol either has a agreement that was signed and the bill violates the statue of frauds because it is over $500.00 without a valid signature. Or the order is valid and the agreement isn’t, and if that is the case, there is nothing holding you to the order.
7.Only one of these cases can be true. There is only one signature. And in either case your charge back should be honored.
Another issue that has come up frequently is that of ownership of the domain name. This issue takes on two valid arguments from your side.
1.Because the domain name is the first entry you make and prior to the signing of an agreement.
Gisol took possession of your intellectual property prior to any agreement.
2.The second issue arises from the agreement stating that he owns your intellectual property.
First of all it is highly questionable that that is legal or enforceable. Not even non disclosure agreements designed to protect intellectual property can take ownership of prior knowledge of intellectual property, and it clearly has to say so or the agreement is invalid. But even if it were. You did not bring your domain name into the site. Gisol did, and gisol did it prior to any agreement or purchase. So, even if gisol could argue that he owns your website that you brought into his hosting site. You did not bring the domain name in. Gisol did.
Another issue that comes up all the time that no one is bothering to tackle. The second paragraph of the agreement clearly states that “use“ of services is acceptance of the agreement. This is a critical statement, largely because it is not necessary for a agreement to be valid. It doesn’t say signing the agreement is acceptance, or having used the services is acceptance. It is very specific. Gisol uses the term “use”.
Because of the unnecessary nature of this statement and that it is so specific, it requires you to actually be using the services in order for the contract to be in force. If you stop using it for any reason the contract or agreement is no longer in force. Or is it binding.
Thats a literal interpretation of the contract and you should check that with a good, and I did say GOOD attorney. Or better yet a law school.
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Hi Frank,
I am wondering about your statement below
“6.Gisol either has a agreement that was signed and the bill violates the statue of frauds because it is over $500.00 without a valid signature. Or the order is valid and the agreement isn’t, and if that is the case, there is nothing holding you to the order.”
“7.Only one of these cases can be true. There is only one signature. And in either case your charge back should be honored.”
How do you present that their is only one signature? Won’t your CC just tell you that you signed both statements? Do you mean you must show them proof of the returned receipt?
Thanks!
Hi Sam,
The thing is you only signed ONCE, that means that TWO signatures signed are IDENTICAL. That is not possible, especially when you signed ONLINE, probably using a mouse or touchpad! This is assuming Gisol provided your signature on the agreement, and on your “sales receipt/bill”.
You should also have proof of that signature from signaturelink, which you can supply as YOUR evidence?
Demand that your CC send you any documents that Gisol have provided as evidence. You have to be entitled to see it to dispute it.